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tv   [untitled]    May 18, 2012 7:00am-7:30am EDT

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print industry, which is really challenged at the moment for reasons that are obvious. technological change and advance. that's accelerating. but why i think it's still important to keep the focus on the print industry is because these are the same people who to be fair to them are having to and in some cases are successfully adapting to this technological revolution. so actually, if you do get the regulatory framework right for print journalism i think that will have a profound effect on the way the internet develops. >> this is not so much whether mr. remember lebedev made the point, it's not so much as whether your news comes on dead trees or through the -- >> tablet p. >> the tablet or whatever. the fact is it's about -- or may be about the thing that journalists do that nobody else does, which is to go out, to get
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stories, to put the facts together, and then to write about them in a way that is accessible to a wider population. which is perhaps different from those that are simply tweeting to one another or otherwise communicating on facebook. >> yeah, but otherwise the -- when we had the little break, and i was just sort of having a look at my phone and -- the guys from the bbc and itv and sky who are covering this, they're not here. they're outside. they're watching it. why don't they want to be in here? because that is now part of journalism as well. so they tweet, they write, they blog, they go on television. they are journalists. what i think is happening is we're going to end up in a position where there has to be a
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redefinition essentially of what a journalist is. i think it would be absurd to expect you to regulate, have regulation for every single person who's on facebook and twitter because then you're not far off from saying we have to regulate the content of text messaging and so forth. it's absurd. so i think there has to be a definition of what a journalist is, what a media organization is. and there, this is where i have some sympathy for the print industry, it's not just about the print industry. >> well, i'm sure that's right. the problem is as lord o'donnell made clear that you've not merely got to capture where we are at the moment but do it in such a way to where it's relevant 20 where you'll be in five years' time. >> and i think that's difficult because if you think that ten years ago facebook, google, twitter, youtube didn't even
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exist and now they are dominant within this space and the newspapers are struggling to catch up. and as rupert murdoch himself said, in their mind being ripped off the whole time for content. that's a difficult -- now, you've been given the specific area but i think in terms of this debate it's developing so quickly that -- but i've heard you many times and i read you in the transcripts talking about the elephant in the room. maybe for a while the elephant kind of has to be parked a bit because i still do think if you get the press -- the new pcc whenever that becomes, and however it's constituted, if that works better than its predecessors, i do think that will be a big impact on the way the rest of it, the blogosphere and so forth develops because again, mooeg people aren't stupid. they can work out who knows what they're on about. when you see which of these
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websites get lots of traffic and which don't, it does tend to be the ones that invest properly in journalism and do real stories and so forth, and hopefully the best get to the top. >> well, the great problem is that you so define the issue that it is incapable of any sensible resolution. and that's a pron. >> but i sort of sense that the press who have -- who i since fear most, what you may conclude, are hoping that first you and then the politicians will say this is so complicated and it's changing so fast we can't do anything about it. i think if nothing is done given how we got to where we are now and the broader cultural issues that we talked about, i think then we will be missing probably
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the only opportunity that we'll have a for a generation to get this right. and i totally understand what gus o'donald's saying, but it's really not the role of legislators, let alone an inquiry, to say let's predict what the world's going to be like in ten years and legislate for that. they have to take a decision based upon what's happening now. >> in lord hant's proposals, paragraphs 41 to 43, you make a number of points there. paragraph 41 i paraphrase without obvious carrots it's hard to see what good will and good faith will bring everyone into the sheep pen, as it were.
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paragraph 43. third line. perfectly possible to have a systems regulation accountability which carried the authority of the government. but independent of government, parliament, commercial-invested interest. and then you furnish us with analogies oof regulatory spheres. and then you have some full authority. what do you say about the word structure? >> what do you mean by that? >> in other words, it's perfectly acceptable to have a system of regulation that structure frt government in part can confer. >> yes. let's take the legal services out leading to the legal services board. i think the fact that it's flown from an act of parliament gives it great authority. and i think the fact that parliament then can have recall upon its effective neness is a d
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thing. i think the fundamental weakness of the pcc has always been the fact that it's a self-regulatory body run by the people regulating it. so the regulator is regulating those who have been regulated. without any real parliamentary oversight of any kind. >> what lord hunt says was that if you even go down that route there are enough parliamentarians who will really want to screw the press down. >> i know that's his view. and i say in my statement i saw lord hunton, i know that's his view. it's not my view. i think people are seized enough of how serious this issue is. and i think -- i'm worried the other way, to be frank. i'm worried that too many of the
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parliamentarians just want to turn away from this. the ones -- there's plenty who get a high profile with saying what they say on the let's regulate side of the fence. but i think my worry in relation to michael gove and some of the political leaders just want this to go away. >> and then mr. campbell, will you identify what you've described as potential flaws in lord hunt's proposals? first of those you've already identified paragraph iragraph 4 paper is under no obligation to -- lack of detail about how the propose the contact will work in practice and sanctions and accountability. the fear that the industry would to any event manage to -- once aga general agreement was reached and followed by negotiations with the desmond problem.
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finally you refer to aspects of the new system which are in your opinion in common with the cold. >> yes. >> are there any points you wish to develop or amplify -- >> i think the funding is difficult because press boff is it's back to their system and they pay for. so how would you fund this, perhaps it does have to be a claim upon the public first. i think the editor's code has always been a major flaw. the fact we're servinging people who decide what the editor's code is is just so obviously a flaw in the whole system. -6 i think that lord hunt, he's doing a very good job trying to make sense of this but he's an absolute passionate believer in regulations. he's trying to get the last chance saloon. and i think they've had so many
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last chance saloons i think the public would think it's odd. let's have a pcc but call it something different. >> i've asked of you this final question. it's on a slightly earlier point. do you think that the existing editor's code adequately separates fact from opinion in clause 1? >> you'd have to remind me what clause 1 says other than its commitment to accuracy. is it fact, comment, and conjecture? is that the -- comme >> comment and conjecture are outside clause 1. but fact is part of accuracy and within clause 1 and within therefore the jurisdiction of the pcc. i think that fairly summarizes the position. >> i can't claim to carry the
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pcc code around in my head. >> maybe it's too precise a poi point. >> i think your quality's cut on the screen. >> yes, the free are free to be partisan, must distinguish clearly between comment, conjecture, and fact. >> i think that's a very good princip principle. >> well, thank you very much, mr. campbell. >> mr. campbell, thank
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